Few guitarists command the reverence that Eric Johnson does. From the unmistakable opening notes of ‘Cliffs of Dover’ to his endlessly expressive live improvisations, Johnson’s playing exists at the intersection of technical mastery and emotional storytelling. As he prepares for an extensive UK tour this summer—his first in over a decade —we caught up with the legendary Texan to talk tone, improvisation, perfectionism, and why the pursuit of emotion still outweighs everything else.
In this exclusive interview, guitar legend Eric Johnson sits down with Rich Shaw to talk tone, emotion, improvisation, and the lifelong pursuit of musical expression.
Hi Eric, how are you doing?
I'm good, Richard. Nice to see you, thanks for doing this.
Thank you for having us and answering some questions that I've got for you today. Really appreciate it. So, the reason for this interview is you are coming back to the UK in July and August. You’re coming to Wolverhampton, Frome, London, Basingstoke, Southampton, Northampton, Norwich, Holmfirth, Edinburgh, Sunderland, and Lytham St Anne's. So, first of all, are you looking forward to coming back?
Totally, yeah. You know, every time I've come to England, and I haven't been for over 10 years. I always just come and play London, I'll play a couple dates, and then leave, and it's like, wow, this is gonna be great, because I'm gonna to play a couple of weeks all over the UK.
I think the last time I saw you was in Holmfirth, weirdly enough, which was a good number of years ago. I remember it being a phenomenal gig, as I'm sure all your gigs are, but yeah, we're looking.
Not all of them. I can run the gamut on that. It's gonna be great to be able to play all over the UK. That's a real treat for me.
I was gonna say, this is a very, extensive tour. It's amazing how often bands and artists come over here, and a UK tour is London and one or two other cities at best. And, this is a real intensive tour, so we're looking forward to it.
And I'm so glad it is. You know what? Could I ask you a question real quick? Absolutely. Are any of those cities I'm playing, Richard, are any of them near the Lake District?
Yes, actually. Are you planning to see the Lake District?
Well, I'd like to if I have a chance, because I've never seen it before over there. You know, I've spent a lot of vacation time in southern England, but I've never seen the Lake District, so I'm hoping to see it.
Yeah, the Lake District and the Peak District are beautiful. Absolutely beautiful scenery.
It's great to know that maybe one or two of the cities are near there.
Hopefully on a day off, you'll get to visit and really take in the sights. I’m proud to come from the UK, and we have some beautiful scenery.
Oh, absolutely.
I've got a question from a good friend of mine who's a massive fan of yours, and his question was: In your early career, there seemed to be an album almost every four to six years. And recently, you've really ramped up the output. He was wondering, was there any particular reason for that? Is it due to recording costs, or, that search for perfectionism, and then maybe you've let go of it in later years? I'm just curious as to why the reason is.
Well, I think it’s trying to let go of some of that perfectionism. I mean, I think it took me a long time, I'm kind of late to the party. I realised you could spend forever trying to get something perfect. It doesn't mean it got better, you know? It just got different, and actually, honestly, a lot of times, it gets not as good, you know? Well, intentionally, maybe it does, but emotionally, it changes. I guess I was so concerned about getting it just right, that you pay a price for that with some of the emotion. Whatever muscle you use, the muscle gets stronger. And I've spent a lot of time learning how to dissect and try, at least, to get stuff where it's just, you know, but I mean, but maybe the muscle, that emotion, and just getting the first or second take, you know, and that… that muscle has not gotten weaker if you don't practice that. So, I think it's just time to really try to start walking towards that. It’s a challenge to reposition yourself to get that muscle strong, but that's what it's about, you know, because we want that emotion, you know? And it's funny, like, all my favourite records were done in days, yet when I go in the studio, it's like, no, I can't do that, I gotta spend months, you know? You gotta find a synchronicity between what moves you and what you want to move other people that you do, and I'm trying to walk towards that more.
Great answer. Thank you for that. How much of it is that first take magic? Have you ever had those moments where it’s the first take, and it's like, I don't think we're gonna better that?
Absolutely, and I think the more you subscribe and believe in that, the more you can make it so. It can happen. You have to believe it. It happens, because I think our energy and inspiration and excitement about it is in the moment, you know? You listen to the first Hendrix records, they were first or second takes, and they're just fantastic, you know, But I did read, like, Gypsy Eyes took 48 takes or something. And that's cool, you know, if it happens… I think it's a general rule, we have to subscribe to where the bounty of that emotion is, but there will be times where it can't always say, well, it's always gotta be this way. You gotta be malleable, I guess.
Exactly. There are times where there's almost a romanticism behind it, where we think of our heroes just did it, and that's how it was. Do you think Strawberry Fields forever took one take? I don't think so. Sometimes, that magic has to be crafted.
Yeah, exactly, totally. That's well said, yeah, totally.
Speaking of crafting that magic. I’m curious about how a lot of songwriters do this, but how much of it is composed, and how much of it is where you allow for some kind of interpretation and evolution, so there's space for maybe different live versions? Where's that line where you go, okay, I need to have this completely mapped out, this can be left open, or maybe there's entire tracks where there’s zero room for improvisation.
Sometimes there's zero room for improvisation in my music, but as a general rule, there's a lot of improvisation. The solos, or even the little licks in between, and stuff. But it kind of varies on the song, you know? When I do the acoustic songs, they're pretty much note for note. But when I do electric, there's a lot more improvisation.
Speaking of improvisation, when I'm improvising, sometimes I imagine my favourite players and think, what would they do? There's always a bucket list of I need these notes, I need these techniques; and then sometimes I think about what my favourite players would do, and sometimes my natural musical DNA just comes out. I'm curious, is there anything that goes through your mind while you're improvising, or is it just completely freeform? Are there times where you almost play yourself into a corner, where you're thinking, how do I get out of this and engage the brain a little bit, and turn it on its head?
Yeah, totally. I think it always is a product of the history of our heroes and who we love, and it can be an amalgamation of all those things we love. I love the finesse and touch of those early Cream records and the vibrato. I love the tone. I love he power of Hendrix's leads, and then I like the lyricism of Wes Montgomery, or Charlie Christian, and John McLaughlin. So, I think it's always in the back of your mind, because they're like the library books that make up your story where you did your research, you know? And it's always it’ a constant assignment, if you will, to never solidify our concept so much that you become congealed. You have to kind of stay liquid because it's not the only impediment, but 99% of the impediment is what we decide we can do or can't do, or what's possible or what's not possible. I think a lot of our heroes, the pioneers, they didn't accept no for an answer that this can't be done. I like this, I'm gonna make it so, and so I know that some of my most interesting playing, whenever that happens, is because I decide: what if I allow myself to go here and do this? Instead of saying that's not part of my library book? And then you build new books.
Great answer. And with that lyricism from Wes Montgomery that you talked about: because you are a singer as well, I'm wondering when you're crafting guitar melodies specifically, are you thinking lyrically, or, how would this be phrased on a voice, or is it purely guitar centric? In the sense I'm gonna use the guitar in a way that I can't use the vocal, and vice versa.
I think so. In a way, I can't use a vocal, and I have a pretty limited vocal range. If I could really sing I would love to do it, but okay, I'll do it on guitar instead.
I can't sing at all, and I tip my hat to anybody who can sing, especially if you can sing and play guitar at the same time. I'm always curious when people like yourself write who can sing, and obviously play guitar, and where's that balance, especially when it's the guitar melody front and centre. Do you picture, things? For example, when you're writing, do you picture imagery and stories and environments?
Totally, I pick up the guitar, and think: what does it feel like sonically? How does it strike me? Do I feel that emotion? Do I feel like it's in the pocket or in the zone of that connection, of getting that feel? And I don't really when I'm first writing a song, I'm not really convinced of whether it should be a vocal or an instrumental. I kind of let the thing kind of stipulate where it wants to end up being, you know?
How much of it is you are sat with an acoustic guitar, or even an unplugged electric, and the idea comes, or how much of the idea comes from the sonics, the actual tone itself?
Well, for me, it has a lot to do with the tone, because if somebody plays one note, it's like, that does something that draws me in or doesn't draw me in, and I'm not sure why. I started playing piano first, and it's that purity of sound. It's like, what are you gonna say here? You drew me in with that sound. And that's why I love people like Wes Montgomery. One note, and I'm in. It's kind of like seeing a movie, when you go see a movie. You’re drawn into the movie in ten seconds, because the actor has that same kind of thing. If I see a movie by Anthony Hopkins, dang, I'm in! I'm in within a minute of that movie starting. And it's the same as Wes: one note, you're in. Sam Cooke sings one note, you're in. Or even the start of ‘When the Wind Cries Mary’, that tone. I’m in this thing, what are you gonna tell me, you know? The first thing that happens to me is my ear catches something, so I want to hear something that's going to catch me. And then at that point, you have the attention, and you want to see where the movie goes, or where the song goes.
I love that analogy, especially because I've just recently rewatched for the thousandth time, ‘The Silence of the Lambs', and like you say, the second Anthony Hopkins comes on screen, it's like he doesn't even have to do anything.
Oh, isn't it amazing? It's like, I don't know what it is. There's a mysticism to it. Just certain people are in that pocket, or in that zone, or tapped in.
Your thoughts on tone are very well documented, and I'm just curious about clean tone, specifically. What makes a great clean tone, in your opinion? Because I love your clean tone, and I feel like it's not discussed enough. Your clean tone has a magic about it. If I overthink it I can't explain it, but there's just something about your clean tone that is just so identifiably you. So, did that come about with years behind the scenes tinkering away, or was it early on in your career that you found that kind of clean tone? Is it still evolving to this day?
The sounds I go for, as a general rule, are pretty much the same all the time. I've kind of reached the point where this is the kind of sound I like. I want that early Eric Clapton lead tone, but with more gain. I had to distill it down, and I want my dirty rhythm sound to sound like Keith Richards, but then I want to turn on the fuzz and have it sound like ‘Voodoo Child (Slight Return)’. I want the clean tone to be a cross between a great country Telecaster tone mixed with Hendrix's ‘When the Wind Cries Mary’, or ‘Hey Joe’. And, I like to put a little chorus on to get a stereo feel. And that, in a nutshell, is it. And I just do the same hing over and over and over. I like having those different textures. But most of it is pretty much just straight up. You know, like, if you take a Fender amp and a Stratocaster. It's gonna sound like that, pretty much. And then if you take two of them, put a stereo course on it, it’s gonna just kinda sound like that. The dirty rhythm sound is a little trickier. It's kind of a Fender thing: put it on 7 or 8 for kind of like the beginning of ‘Start Me Up’ or something. And then it's got to be an amp that really is pedal-friendly, you know, to where you hit a pedal and it turns into this real thing. I don't like a lot of ‘pixel’ sounding overdrive where you hear the chunks, you know? I don't want to see the chunks, I don't want to see the pixels, I want to hear it be a smooth saturation kind of thing. t’s like everybody wants to go get those TVs that have much higher definition. And to me, you feel the note instead of see all the little pieces that make it up.
Continuing on from that, do you have your thumb on the pulse of what's happening gear-wise? Are you constantly getting new gear in to spice it up, or are you kind of a player that is set in their ways of what they like and what they don't like? Do you stay on top of new gear and bring it into studio for inspiration?
Well, PRS is coming out with a line of new all-tube amps that sound pretty darn good. I've got a couple of them now, and I'm amazed. I mean, he's really kind of cracked the nut on this vintage high-gain tone that's kind of real pure sound. I have a real tough time with new speakers. I don't know what it is about them.
The actual speakers themselves or the cabs?
Yeah, the speakers. So, I like the new PRS ones, they're pretty good.
I'm sure Paul will be glad to hear that, if you haven't told him already.
Yeah, you know, I did, I actually. I did tell him recently. He’s been working hard on it for years, too, and he's come up with a pretty good amp.
I've been playing PRS since I was 16, and I've used some of their amps to make albums, and they’re just phenomenal. I'm waiting for the day where PRS are known equally as well for the amps and effects as the guitars. I think they're great amps.
Yeah, they are. Phenomenal.
My first foray into your music was 1996 with G3. I had literally just started playing guitar, and, bought the DVD. I thought: “who is this? Wow!” It completely blew my mind in the sense it was so different to what I was listening to at the time, but I was hooked. That Anthony Hopkins thing again. It drew me in. So I was curious, but if you were to do your own version of G3, hypothetically, which two players would you bring out with you?
Oh, man, I like Matteo, he's really a great player. I love Sonny Landreth, too.
GI: He's phenomenal.
What a slide player. And great songwriter, too. That would be a good tour, and I'll definitely play first, so I can go out and listen to them.
Is there a musical idea or a kind of composition that you feel you've yet to do? Obviously, you've got this incredibly varied back catalogue. But is there anything you feel like you've really yet to tap into that you've always wanted to, for whatever reason?
Yeah, just to come up with a more fresh approach to guitar playing, and thinking about more interesting chord voicings, playing through changes more, and allowing yourself to dilate the inner harmonics of two notes, three notes at a time. It’s almost like you can play any note at any time, as long as it's played in the right kind of dominance or recessive way. So, we're really kind of unlimited. And I think there's a lot there to still explore that would be uncharted territory. And, it's easy to get into what your repertoire is, and kind of just rehash it. And that's cool, to a certain extent. I just think that allowing yourself to see where you could go if you didn't have to play by whatever rulebook you’ve grown believe in.
You do have such a unique voice and touch on the instrument. Do you have any advice for any younger players who are trying to find their own voice? I always like to ask people this. When did Eric Johnson sound like the Eric Johnson we know? Was it from day one of picking up a guitar, or was it something that you strived for, or something that happened naturally?
With me, it was a combination of all my heroes, and I liked the tone they got, and I wanted to set up a palette where I could kind of get my own version of all my heroes. Some people say that I have an original sound. If you look very closely at it, it's not. It’s really just a combination of the people I love. Somebody else would have a different combination, you know? And therein, I think, will appear the originality. But if you look down in the nucleus, it's really just a continuation of people that I've always loved. B.B. King gave me some of the best musical advice once. I was on stage trying to cop his licks and play. I was opening up for a tour for him. I grew up on the blues, and I know the B.B. King, and the Albert King thing. I love it. I mean, it's part of my soul, and there's a little bit of a blues inflection guitaristically in what I do, because I love that. I was on stage just trying to go through all the licks that I like, trying to BB, or da-da-da. But he said: “You gotta find your own unique light. You gotta find the one thing you do that nobody else can do”. You have to build on that, and let that illumination inspire you. And so, I would say to anybody, first off, you get to decide. You've got to picture in your mind, sonically, what you want to sound like. You clarify what you want. Then you go above. Go to the music store, try out a ton of stuff: that’s not it, that's not it, that's it! But you just keep that beacon of what you want. And if you don't have that, it's like, I could go out on the highway and start driving to New York City or London or wherever, and if I don't have some kind of map or GPS, it’s like, hopefully I'll get there, but I don't have a clue how to get there. I think, for whatever reason, I knew I wanted this kind of sound with my rhythm sound and I knew I wanted this kind of sound for the lead.
As someone, like many guitar players who's tried to perfect some of your techniques, some of the faster pentatonic stuff, to be more precise, what happens when you reach any kind of technical plateau? How do you get out of that? Or even a songwriting plateau, where you just say: it’s not happening right now. How do you navigate yourself out of those ruts?
That's a good question. Sometimes it’s just reckless abandon, you know? Just allow yourself to just make a lot of mistakes, and flub up, and just go through a bunch of rubbish, because within that, there'll be a little thing of, oh, wait a second, what was that, you know? And I think some of the greatest players went out on a limb, and a lot of the times, the limb breaks, you know? And our successes are made up of a lot of failures, and we have to embrace it and be okay with that part of the thing, which is the failures. Hendrix is a great example. I mean, that guy went on so many limbs, and you know a lot of them broke. And that's not in disrespect to him, it's just, how do you get there if you don't traverse and try, you know? And he had the seeking quality to say, I'm just gonna go out on this, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But within that, he came up with something that not only worked, but was one of a kind. And so I think it's just allowing yourself to let it fall apart, and just allow yourself to break that mould, even if where you go breaking the mould is something way inferior. It's the a failure on the way to the success that you can't get to without that failure. So, you break that mould, you get into something really horrible, and there'll be some spark. Yeah, it's horrible, but that kind of got me out of that stigma.
That's great advice. You've got to be willing to fail. I find the people who are the most successful, whether they're musicians, athletes, actors, they have similar stories. I read so many autobiographies, biographies, and watch a lot of documentaries; and there are so many tales of all these most successful people in their fields. A lot of people play it safe, I think.
Absolutely.
What's next after the tour? Obviously, you finish the UK tour in August, what do you have planned for the rest of the year?
I'm gonna go to Scotland and do a master class in the middle of August with Guthrie Trapp, really fine guitarist, and Mike Stern. We're gonna spend a few days together, hopefully teaching some kids something. They'll probably end up teaching us, but that's good. Then I'll have to go back to the States. I'm gonna try to work on some recordings I've been working on.
So, new music next year, do you think?
I hope so, yeah.
Well, can't wait to hear it. And, thank you ever so much for your time, Eric. I do appreciate your time, and thank you for your great answers. Hopefully I'll be seeing you at one of those shows on the UK tour in July and August.
Come out and say hello if you make it.
I will. Thank you ever so much, Eric. Take care.
Eric Johnson embarks on his Texaphonic UK tour from July 22 to August 4. Tickets available from www.thegigcartel.com/Artists-
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