“You want every note you play to ring the bell in you.” - Robin Trower on the Secret to Truly Soulful Guitar Playing

Legendary guitarist Robin Trower joins Guitar Interactive’s Sam Bell for an in-depth conversation about his new album 'Shine', guitar tone, songwriting, improvisation and the lifelong pursuit of playing with soul. Robin explains why every song begins with the guitar, how he knows when a musical idea is worth pursuing, and why his ultimate goal is to make his playing “as soulful as possible.” He also discusses the influence of blues giants including B.B. King and Albert King, and the elusive “soul power” that sits behind truly great phrasing. The conversation also dives into Robin’s legendary tone, including his current Marshall and pedal setup, why he prefers an amp to remain more open rather than overly driven, and one deceptively simple piece of advice: make sure your electric guitar sounds good acoustically before worrying about pedals. Robin also shares his approach to creativity, songwriting, reading and inspiration outside music, why some of his greatest musical heroes are singers rather than guitarists, and why after decades of playing he’s still searching for something new.

At the time of our meeting today, you've had a new single released from your upcoming album ‘Shine’, which is ‘Live Your Time’, and I believe the album's out in September. And first thing, Robin, you're so busy. You've got albums, live shows, tours, and it seems they're back to back and you're still going strong. So first of all, to get to this album, what was the genesis of this album? I also want to talk to that in you that wants to keep creating.

Well, the genesis of this album comes from quite a few different years. There are tracks on this album that I'd recorded maybe five, six years ago. And when I was looking for what the best group of songs would be, I started to look back and did more work on them, but they were already recorded. I think they're all on there because I feel like they fit together.

So choosing those tracks from before, did you choose those because of certain themes in terms of the lyrics and the songs? Or was it just because there was something about them you wanted to give another go? What was the reasoning behind that?

When I started to record the new material for this album, which was last year, there definitely seemed to be an overall feeling or vibe about them. So I was looking for other material that was in a similar place. I tried to put together something that you would play all the way through, and nothing jarring happened, you know?

No, it's definitely got a coherence to it. And of course, it's got your signature guitar playing, and I've noticed you've got these chord progressions that you go for, which I can only describe as Robin chord progressions. They're your thing.

A lot of made-up chords basically, that don't really exist.

It seems to me you're playing from your heart, from intuition. You were saying there's a vibe with the album. Is that how you've always worked?

What I'm trying to do with every song is create something with a bit of depth to it. It has to have some potency for me to even bother trying to record it. As far as the guitar playing goes, I'm trying to make it as soulful as possible. That is the fence I'm trying to jump, really.

Your guitar playing on this, as with all your material, has that intentional detail. I like the way it's been recorded; it sounds in your face. It's very organic, and you can hear everything, all the detail in your playing. And that intentionality I want to speak to for a moment. I notice some of the subjects on this album are topics like truth and your time—Live Your Time—and these kind of big life topics. Is it important to you to start from the person behind the musician and then come out with the music, or does it start on the guitar?

It always starts with the guitar. The guitar idea is what I create songs out of really. Quite often a good guitar arrangement will come pretty quickly, but the lyrics quite often take two, three days, four days maybe—waking up in the middle of the night with a line, that kind of thing. The most important thing about the lyric for me is that it doesn't detract from the feeling that the instrumental side of things has got. I'm hoping that it enhances it, but as long as it doesn't detract and does actually fit, that's the main idea of coming up with lyrics.

You mentioned getting up in the middle of the night and there's a lyric there and you pen that. Is that when the guitar comes out to join that and see where that goes? I know you've got some brilliant singers singing some of these lyrics on the album as well, but you obviously enjoy the process of creating the lyrics and putting the message across.

When I'm writing, I practise the melody and the lyric to the guitar part, and when I'm singing it, I have to have a feeling that it's right—not just what it's saying lyrically, but the feeling of it. That has to feel right. In a way I'm road testing before I get the singer to—whether it's Richard or Jeff on this one who does a song on it. The other thing is when I'm finalising it as a demo, I have to hear, for instance, Richard singing it in my head before it goes to the final recording.

So the collaboration process actually starts quite early when you're in the creation of the idea. You're mindful of who you're working with.

That's correct, yeah.

I've read somewhere that you enjoy coming up with ideas on the guitar, and as guitarists I think we're always curious when we hear greats like yourself say that—what does that actually look like? Do you record stuff onto your phone, or does a certain idea just keep occurring to you and every time you play the guitar it keeps presenting itself? How does it look generally? I know it's not a one-cut answer.

I like to play every day. I'm usually working on something, but if I'm not, I'll doodle around, play around just for my own fun, and an idea will pop up—half an idea—and immediately you think, "Oh, that could be a song." There's a beginning of a song there. Everything keys off that guitar idea basically; everything is created from there.

But once the idea's there, one thing that people often get is they have a great riff or a hook, or you’ve got the lyric or something strong, and eventually there's that time of, "Right, this needs to turn into something."

I think a good idea—a good musical idea, guitar part, guitar arrangement—if it's a good strong thing it will happen very quickly. From the initial idea to perhaps the complete thing is an hour or two usually, if it's good. If I'm struggling with it past that kind of time, I just maybe put it to one side and come at it again another time.

So it sounds like you've become tuned into when it's time to move on.

Yeah. And I think that's just experience, isn't it? I've been doing it so long.

It's part of the magic as well.

All the time. That's the thing—it's never ending. That's what I do.

You've got these albums coming out and the tours and you keep on going. I had a listen to the preview of the album, and it sounds great by the way. I'm excited for it. When this interview comes out, hopefully it'll be just about to come out and everyone can check it out—‘Shine’, out on September the 25th, I believe. It looks like you've got a hefty touring schedule coming up as well.

Yeah.

We might talk about that in a little bit, but you must always be in that process then if you're picking up the guitar daily. You must have songs always in progress somewhere. You're always thinking creatively.

Yeah. At the moment I've actually just been recently working on material for an album I started with Maxi Priest, and so I've been doing that. But at the same time just recently I've started to practise the songs I'm going to be playing live in the upcoming tour. So I'm doing two things at the same time. But I have to practise every day, because if I don't have really hard calluses, I'm in trouble. I can't technically do what I like to do.

The guitarists out there want to know—including myself—when you say you play every day at home, what's your rig at home? What's it like? Have you got some Marshalls and a Strat set ready to go?

Tiny little practise amp, but it always goes through one of my Fulltone overdrives just so I can get something of the character of the sound.

So that's important to you. I've heard you talking in Ricky Beato's interview particularly about how the recording process in the studio environment, and even when you're playing, it's about the interaction of absolutely everything including the room. So that's important.

Yeah. Tone—it's all about tone really, isn't it? I need to get a sound that I can emotionally respond to so that I can be creative and do things that are of the moment rather than pre-prepared. If I haven't created something during a night's performance, or during recording as a lead player, I'm not happy. Everything I do is working towards giving me the impetus to play with a bit of freedom and feeling.

So you're "practising," but not in the sense of running your scales. You're getting that feeling, you're connecting with your sound and coming from that.

I think all my lead work—if I practise playing lead, it's always to a song. I'm definitely looking for the right melodies that work for that piece of music. It's not a matter that I've got these licks that I always run out. It's not like that.

You're an incredibly melodic and dynamic guitarist. The melodies are there, and I'm assuming of course there's improvisation. We're hearing a lot of improvisation on the record and live. I'm always curious about improvisation and creating a story in the time of that solo and not getting carried away. Could you speak to your experience over the years and how that's developed to now? Has it changed?

I think it's something that I already had—that ability to freeform it a bit when it comes to lead work. There are melodies that you fall back on, that are stuck in your head—things that will work.

That speaks to listening to this album and lots of your playing. The ideas sound so confident and complete. Sometimes you hear improvisation and it sounds like someone's practicing, which is definitely not you. You might hear they're not quite confident behind the idea; it sounds like they're looking for something. With you it sounds direct—the words have been chosen and that's what we're going for in that moment. Is there anything people could pay attention to when you're in a recording studio improvising?

With a solo it's all about the first note really. If you get that first note right, something can happen from there—or first three or four notes. If you get that right, then maybe you can wail a bit. And I quite often come back and replace a phrase if I've jammed through a solo. Not every phrase is great. So I quite often patch up solos on record.

You have an extensive live run from, I think, the end of this month in the UK, going off around to the USA and other places.

A long US tour coming, yeah.

Obviously playing daily is important for that. With this newer material, what does rehearsal look like for you? Are you preparing with the band? Are you preparing anything yourself privately? What does the process look like?

Because I'm putting three new songs in that we haven't played live before, plus we haven't played live since last year, we will do four days' rehearsal before we go on tour in the UK, and that should be enough really.

And do you get excited knowing you're going to go on tour? Does rehearsal start to ramp up in the energy?

It does, yeah. If it's not doing that, then you should pack it in really.

You've mentioned Maxi Priest. I've seen that you've worked with, of course, Jack Bruce, Bryan Ferry—some big names in the world of rock and roll—and producers. What's your experience working on your own stuff versus working collaboratively with artists like that? I get the sense you're completely you, and that's what people want: somebody who's unique on their record to do a certain role. What's that been like for you in the studio? Any stories from those times?

Working with Jack was just a piece of cake really, because he's so gifted—such a gifted player, singer, and an inspirational kind of drive behind me as the guitar player having that bass going on. Pulling together the material, I would come with a basic arrangement, guitar arrangement and maybe the lyric, and then Jack would add his melody to that. We got a combination of both of us. I'm thinking mostly now about the album ‘Seven Moons’, which was our favourite album that we did together. That's how we worked that one.

Finding the vibe, the chemistry that's already there, and running with that. What about the Bryan Ferry thing? That sounds like a slightly different environment, different style of music.

I wasn't there really as a player. I was there helping Bryan produce those albums—really just my ears and whatever ideas I had. I was just there to help him, basically. It was great fun. Bryan's a really great artist.

People know Robin Trower as the guitar player, and there's so much there, but it's about the music ultimately and songcraft. I want to talk about influences for a moment. We'll talk about guitar influences, but songwriting, songcraft—what kind of things are there for you? Who are the great songwriters in your opinion who keep on... Or do you get inspired by your own output—not in a kind of "look at all I've done," but inspired by coming up with ideas that excite you to move forward?

I think it's probably a combination of influences. I always like to think it's a combination of the great artists that I've been influenced by added to my own creativity. That pretty much sums it up.

I've seen somewhere that you named the three mentors as Albert King, B.B. King, and Hendrix as people who are a good textbook for guitar playing in your opinion. Is that still true for you, and if so, what is it that you take from each particularly in your own style?

They all, for a start, played great melodies. That was the thing: memorable tunes on the guitar, even though it's blues licks or rock and roll licks. They came up with very memorable lines, and all three of them are really soulful. That had a huge impact on me.

Would you say you spent time playing along to their records, or was it a case of listening and imbibing the vibe?

I knew from quite a young age that it wasn't a good idea to sit down and learn other people's licks. With B.B. King—probably my first big influence apart from Scotty Moore with Elvis, because Scotty Moore is why I wanted to play guitar, so that's an influence—but with B.B. King I didn't sit down and work out technically what he's doing. I was more interested in what was behind the notes. I started to look for that in what I was trying to do. I always thought it's not a good idea to work out somebody else's licks, because it may put a block on you creating your own thing. They may get in the way of what you've got to say. Luckily I had that idea right from the get-go.

So straight away you were coming at guitar with an open mindset, exploring your own territory on the guitar?

Yeah, because you want every note you play to ring the bell in you, and it's not likely you'll be able to do that with somebody else's where they've rung the bell for themselves, but that's not going to do it for you when you play it.

That's profoundly deep advice. I was going to ask you how you keep to your own sound, especially as you've worked with loads of musicians and there are so many guitar players. I guess we can only be ourselves at the end of the day.

Probably difficult to sound like somebody else anyway. I think you've just got to keep searching. I'm continually looking, trying stuff. Although I've more or less settled on a Marshall amp and the Strat, and all the different pedals I use are by Fulltone, I switch around with different overdrive/distortion pedals, different balances between the output and the distortion/overdrive pedal and the level you're running the amps at. I'm playing around with that all the time.

What's your general philosophy with that at the moment? How do you run your Marshalls and your drive pedals?

Just lately, for the last couple of years I've been using the 50-watt Marshall. Lately—mind you it's only in recording—I've been running them on very low output, I think two, and getting more of an overdrive sustain from the pedals that I've used.

So is the amp running a little bit clean?

I like the fact that if you run an amp not too loud, you get more of an open sound. The more you drive the amp, the more it squashes.

So that goes for your playing style as well, being able to play into the amp as the instrument itself, as well as just the guitar being the instrument.

Yeah.

You mentioned earlier about B.B. King and what's behind the notes. Your emphasis is on exploring yourself—what you have to say—but you're also listening with an open mind, so it's kind of having that stuff wash through. But then when you pick up the guitar it's about whatever's there in that moment. Would you say that's a fair summary of your approach?

I think that's probably right. Obviously I have my own patterns on the guitar. Maybe when I first pick it up I'll play some of those—phrases that are mine—that have come over the years. As I said earlier, I'm just looking for something that rings the bell. I know when I hit the right thing, because it's a special feeling.

Going back to what you said about B.B. King—you were listening for what's behind the notes. Do you mean the person, the feeling he was putting in to make that note or that phrase so potent?

The feeling he was putting in. That sort of thing. An even better example really is Albert King. Fantastic tone, fantastic melodies he plays, but with such potency. That soul, you know?

I think you definitely imbibe that and demonstrate that in how you play. One thing I'm always interested in is influences outside of music itself. You're busy making music; it seems like music is a daily thing. But your album and the song titles and the album titles all speak to life, of course, and music is part of life. What else inspires you outside of music?

That's a hard one. Obviously movies and books are also feeding it—feeding the creativity. There's no doubt about that.

Are you a reader? Do you like to read particular styles of book?

Yeah. I like a lot of history, particularly 20th-century history. I read novels, and just recently I finished the Hornblower novels. I like that kind of stuff as well.

Do you find that stuff trickles in by itself? Everything must be connected somehow, or is it not so clear cut?

I think you definitely pick up turns of phrase which maybe stick in your head—that pop in lyrically down the road. That's one thing you can get from reading literature.

I think it's important for guitarists to not get too stuck in guitar world. For the younger generation of guitar players who may be coming to guitar through social media, they get a lot of top tips videos—you can buy the pedal that does it all, every method in a book, you could have it all spoon-fed.

A very good tip I discovered early on is make sure your guitar—if it's an electric guitar—sounds good acoustically, because that's where the sound comes from. It doesn't matter how many pedals you go through. The acoustic sound of my Strats—it's got to ring. It can't be plink, plink, plink. It's got to have a real resonance; it's got to ring out. The other thing worth mentioning is my favourite artists are all singers.

That's a big one. Which singers particularly?

I just love great singers. There's a guy from the '30s called Russ Colombo, which nobody's ever heard of, which I really love. James Brown is my idol in terms of vocals and soul power, you know. But I also like Dinah Washington and a lot of singers like that—real great singers. They're the most impressive musicians, I think.

Absolutely. I do get that in your playing and that of the great blues players you're mentioning. Something that pins it all together is that directness—the bell or the heart to the amp and to the ear. That seems to be a strong common thread.

Yeah. I'm grateful for the gift. Very grateful.

Well, we're grateful for your gift, Robin. I've got one more question for you, if you don't mind. Upcoming dates and the tour: you've got the UK—this interview might be out just before the end of your UK dates—but you've got the US dates as well. Is there anything else coming up in the near future?

After that I'd like to finish this album I'm doing with Maxi Priest and Livingston Brown. We did an album some years ago, but I've come at this one—although it's the same guys—I've come at it a completely different direction. I'm looking forward to finishing that off. That'll be the thing after the touring.

Nice. Well, I hope the tours go fantastically, and definitely check out ‘Shine’ if you're listening to this interview. Shine comes out on the 25th of September. Finally, is there anything that you would have liked me to ask you that I haven't asked you?

I think you've been pretty comprehensive.

Great. Well, thank you for your time, Robin. It's been an absolute pleasure.

My pleasure.